Webinar: Themes from the First Two Months of Technical Assistance (Text Version)
This is a text version of the webinar Themes from the First Two Months of Technical Assistance presented on May 2, 2022.
Steve Lommele: Great. So we're going to go ahead and kick things off. Today's webinar is covering some common themes from the first two months of technical assistance that the Joint Office has been providing to states and other stakeholders as you all work on your National Electric Vehicle Infrastructure Formula Program state plans. So I'm Steve Lommele. I'm the communications and stakeholder engagement lead for the Joint Office of Energy and Transportation and I am joined today by Johanna Levene, Lissa Myers, Mike Scarpino, and Diane Turchetta. Johanna, Lissa, and I all come from the National Renewable Energy Laboratory, but we are on detail to the Joint Office. Mike comes from Department of Transportation's Volpe Center and he is on detail to the Joint Office. And then we've got Diane Turchetta as well from the Federal Highway Administration, also on detail to the Joint Office. Next slide please.
So just a quick overview what we're going to be covering today. First of all we want to make sure that you're aware of important dates that we've got coming up here in the year with respect to the National Electric Vehicle Infrastructure Formula Program and other initiatives from the Joint Office. We want to remind you of course how to access technical assistance resources that are offered by the Joint Office. And then touch on this idea of a big tent. So the Joint Office has been working closely with many stakeholders recognizing the years and years of experience that many folks have spent working to build a national network for electric vehicle charging and enable an electrified transportation system so we'll cover that. And then some of the common themes that we've heard over the last two months.
So all of us on the webinar today have been participating in one-on-one calls with states as you all develop your NEVI state plans and so we want to touch on some of the common themes that have come up in those calls, share some information on the alternative fuel corridors versus the National Electric Vehicle Infrastructure Formula Program requirements and what that looks like. Talk about how states have approached their NEVI state plans, as well as some of the common exception themes that have come up. At the end we'll cover a few open items that we are still working on and then touch on another a few things that are coming up here shortly. Next slide please.
So in terms of important dates, you probably all saw that on February 10 we issued the NEVI program guidance and state plan template. We also issued a request for round six alternative fuel corridor nominations. So those were issued and every state we've talked to is deep into the state planning process and also thinking about designating additional electric vehicle corridors. And then coming up here in just a few days around mid-May we'll have the 180-day minimum standards and requirements associated with the NEVI Formula Program and also specifically on May 13 the request for round six nominations are due. State plans are due on August 1 and then those state plans will be approved by federal highways by September 30. The joint office will be reviewing all state plans and making recommendations to the Federal Highway Administration on approval of those state plans.
And then two other things that are to be determined but no later than one year after BIL enactment which would be November 2022, we'll have the discretionary notice of funding opportunities so that's $2.5 billion for corridor and community charging grants. And then also 10% for the NEVI set aside program. And then also later this year we'll have freight, medium-duty, heavy-duty, electric vehicle corridor designations and a request for nominations for those. Next slide please.
So I wanted to remind you all that we do have technical assistance available through the joint office. So we've had one on one conversations with states and many other stakeholders and you can reach us any time via email. You can reach us via the contact form on DriveElectic.gov and we actually have a phone number too so you can call and submit questions that way. All of these requests that we receive go to our entire technical assistance team and they're managed through an inquiry system so that we can ensure we get back to you in a timely manner given that we get so many requests and we've got a big team we assign things using that DoneDone service to make sure that we get back to all of you. So again please do reach out to us any time. The best way to reach us is via the contact form or that email address that you see on the screen now. And we've gotten many, many inquiries and have established great relationships with many of you so keep the questions coming. And with that I want to turn it over to Mike Scarpino. Next slide please.
Mike Scarpino: Thanks a lot Steve. Good afternoon or good morning depending on where you are everyone. Hopefully if you're in Hawaii and it's 6:30 you've got a nice cup of coffee. So as Steve mentioned we've been very busy the last couple of months with our state one-on-one meetings. We've found that these are a very important way to connect with the states. We spend a lot of time on these meetings and most of these the majority of the time we spend is pressing questions that the states have prepared ahead of time that they've sent to us. Most of it does focus on the NEVI Formula Program but there's also many discussion we have around the round six alt fuel corridor nominations and what might be the strategies for submitting something under this round. Definitely providing general assistance with plans and clarifications while we can on the program guidance that was issued back in February.
And some of the questions that are asked have a response that well, we'll have to wait until the 180-day minimum standards and requirements are issued because we think that those will take care of some questions. As you can see on the map and over on the left hand side we've actually met with 44 – we've had 44 meetings so that's 43 states plus the District of Columbia. There's seven left that we haven't met with. I think the ones highlighted in yellow are scheduled so we have Colorado, Washington, and Hawaii scheduled. Still looking to get our first meeting on the board with North Dakota, Iowa, Arkansas, and Oklahoma. Next slide please.
So Steve described the approach of building the big tent. We certainly do not have any illusions that we are driving the bus here. We are just helping facilitate many efforts that are ongoing and a lot of what we are doing with NEVI is leveraging other programs, other past programs, and other organizations that have been very active in this space for many years. Back on March 1 an MOU was signed between AASHTO and NASEO, which recognized the role that state energy offices and state DOTs will play working together and coordinating efforts to launch the NEVI program. Another thing that we've done is we've been making sure to include the federal highway division offices in all of our state meetings. They have historically been a partner with the state DOTs and with NEVI this will be nothing different. The only thing different will be the focus on electric vehicle charging that hasn't historically been in the division office wheelhouse so it's been very important to include them in the conversations, let them hear the questions and the issues. And there's many issues that come up in our state one-on-one meetings that really the division offices, federal highway headquarters are really the appropriate people to answer.
A sources sought request was issued out of NREL and looking to hire or actually create a list of organizations that will be able to assist the Joint Office with our mission. This is due on Friday, May 6, so it's coming right up this Friday. But they're looking to identify organizations with experience in planning for charging deployment, siting, equipment, vehicle selection and acquisition, utility interconnection, grid impact. So one of the subjects that we'll be involved in with the Joint Office, this would be an opportunity to throw your hat in the ring to potentially be part of if there is funding for some specific activities this will narrow down the field and organizations could be selected from that. Also working very closely with U.S. Department of Energy's Clean Cities program, which for 25 plus years has really been the major program advancing alternative fuel deployment activities across the country. And we see Clean Cities playing an important role in our work. Next please.
So kind of breaking things down here into the major themes we've heard. I'm going to touch just a little on looking at the alt fuel corridor designations on the next slide. And then Johanna will be looking at some of the mapping strategies. Lissa will then be talking about the state plan and the exception scenarios. Go to the next one please. So a lot of questions come up during the one-on-one meetings just trying to get everyone's arms around what is the intersection between the corridor designations and NEVI. The BIL, bipartisan infrastructure, language ties the NEVI funding particularly on this first page to having to be on designated corridors. So just as a quick reminder. I won't go through all of the details here. But the states that have been designating corridors for the last five years for the first five rounds have corridors that are designated right now as either pending or ready.
And really the goal is to take anything, any stations that are along those corridors or site new ones that will fill gaps or extend corridors to get to the fully built out criteria. So you can see that ready criteria particularly for electric has changed over the years. Level two was allowed originally and then there was CCS and CHAdeMO and you can see what the round six requirements are now. We pulled in the five-mile requirement to one mile or less and now there's new requirements for numbers of ports and power levels. Really the focus for the states needs to be looking at corridors be it pending or ready and building, getting to fully built out which is really the goal of using the immediate NEVI funds and then reaching fully built out if you have any funding remaining that you can apply anywhere across the state. Next slide please.
That's it for me so I'm going to pass this over to Johanna for the next few slides.
Johanna Levene: Thanks Mike. So for those of you who have worked with me or talked with me on any of the state calls you know that I get super excited when we can talk about maps. And so I think one of the things that helps with the clarification between the NEVI corridors and the alternative fuel corridors that Mike was just discussing in his chart is actually seeing some examples. And so some of these are examples that we have had conversations with with states. Some of them are examples that we have put together in anticipation of having some conversations with states. So I just want to walk through and talk about how these play out in the real world. So what we have here is a map of Colorado. You can see that Colorado has pending corridors. That is the dashed yellow lines. They have ready corridors. Those are the green lines. And then this map is actually coming from a tool that we have available on the AFDC from the AFDC.energy.gov/corridors page and we have this ability to show what we call potential electric corridors and so that's a pretty basic analysis that we do where we draw a bubble around every station that's 25 miles buffer so it stretches 50 miles from station to the end of the bubble and from station to the end of the bubble as the crow flies so its not actual driving directions.
But what that gives you as an example right here that you can see on I-70 that's just west of Denver. We've got a station here that's just west of Denver and then it stretches out to another corridor that's designated. But it doesn't quite touch this next station that meets the NEVI criteria on I-70. And yet you can see that that is a designated ready corridor. So we're not changing that alternative fuel corridor designation from ready to pending as a result of this. There are stations that did make this in earlier rounds a ready corridor. But we do recognize that in order to get to that next stage of fully built out that there's either going to need to be a station that's going to need to be upgraded here or there's going to be a new station that needs to go into place in order to be able to complete that corridor so that the 61-mile stretch is bridged by NEVI stations, stations that meet NEVI requirements. Similarly you can see that there's another opportunity here where you're heading, on I-76, you're heading sort of northeast out of Denver. There is a station here that again in previous rounds we allowed for a five-mile driving distance from the roadway and now this station is 3.8 miles away. And so one of the things that looking at as we're looking towards a NEVI-compliant corridor is when you zoom into this, this 3.8 mile station is really interesting because you're driving along the highway for quite a bit of that and then you're cutting in to actually enter the entrance on the highway. So thinking about from a state perspective is that the experience you want to be able to have the drivers to have? Is that a station that you want to be able to use as your NEVI compliant station as you're looking toward fully built out? Or is there another station that you want to upgrade?
So looking into these details has been something that we've been doing with states. We've been talking to states about. We've been trying to explain the differences between a fully built out corridor, alternative fuel corridor that's pending, an alternative fuel corridor that's ready. How have these things changed over time? So one of the things I wanted to show you all is sort of a preview of a tool that we have coming is the ability to actually calculate segments. So we have the ability to calculate segments, which we're calling a segment the distance from a station to a station. And be able to say like this segment actually meets the NEVI criteria. Right? So this is two stations that are less than 50 miles apart via driving directions. It's no longer the buffers. So that we can see where we're getting to the point where we're actually starting to build out some contiguous corridors between stations. But we're also trying to see where those segments do not actually always equal a corridor because in the past a corridor has always been for those of you who have been involved in the designation process, right, a corridor has been I am designating I-25 from this exit to this exit and it's a single roadway. And we're saying that we know that we have enough infrastructure from this exit to this exit to make a driver able to drive all along I-25 and it's just I-25.
And in the course of our analysis where we were trying to put together these maps where we're trying to predict where we actually have corridors that are ready corridors and that also meet the NEVI requirements. And in some amazing conversations that we had with some states, particularly Kentucky, we realized that the way we drive and the way we calculate corridors has been, is different. Right? I mean you don't just drive on I-25. You don't just drive on I-70. That doesn't make an actual network. That just makes a corridor. And so one of the things we're trying to do is to provide data to the states so that we can do things like this. We can show these segments, but we can also provide that with the clarity of a segment is not a corridor and we as the Joint Office are trying to understand the nuances and the difference between those two so that you can drive and you can take this little I-270 stretch right here, which has no stations on it, right? It's a little segment. There's no stations on it. Well how do we make that an actual ready corridor? How do we actually make that so that it's fully built out? What does that mean?
And so part of the reason why we don't accept any requirements for fully built out in this first year is because there's a lot of tricky nuances like this that we're trying to learn and we're trying to understand and we're so appreciative of the conversations we have with the states as we're walking through all of these complicated roadways and these complicated travel patterns to understand how do we actually do this. So we do want to make these segments available to the states. But like I said we want to make the segments available with the understanding of a segment is not a corridor, and we're trying to figure out how we both connect the dots and make full road segments within an actual like designated highway so within I-25 or within I-70.
So this is just reiterating some of what I just said on a different map. So the map that I showed you before was as of the end of March. And this is a map that we ran this weekend that is as of last weekend. And so we ran our analysis again to see where these segments are and all of a sudden there were new segments. There were three new segments. There were stations that showed up that weren't there before. And so we started digging into this and another complicating factor as if all of this wasn't complicated enough is that stations are changing and stations are being upgraded and stations are being installed while we're all trying to put these plans together and we're all trying to do the work. And that's what we want. Right? We want this to change over time. We want new stations to go in. And so the other thing we're trying to do is we're trying to figure out ways that we can help you all stay on top of this. Right? So to understand I swear there was a station there Johanna that met the requirements yesterday and it's not there today. What's happened? Well what's happened is we update the Station Locator every night and that station may be offline. We get that data automatically from the networks and it just may be that it's down for maintenance. It may be that there's been a blip in their network and it's just not there.
And so one of the things that we have requested funding for is to be able to expose some of the data that we have that actually allows you to go back in time so that you can say I swear that station was there yesterday and you can click back a few days and it will show up. And you can be like ok. That station was there. It's good. I can move forward. But understanding how do we deal with these like time changes as we're looking towards fully built out designation is another challenge we're going to have to come up with. And again segments are not corridors. We're trying to figure out how do we understand how we calculate a segment and how we translate that to a corridor designation. So more coming soon but again in the spirit of candor, in the spirit of being open and honest with each other between the Joint Office and the states like we want to be able to talk through these and say "Thank you for bringing us these challenges. Thank you for bringing this to us." If all of our roadways were like this one right here on I-70 that would be easy. But it's not, right? We have lots of complicated circular highways, roadways, small connection highways that we need to figure out how we're going to do all of that. And we're going to work on it and we're going to work on it together.
Another thing that I want to bring out as you're calculating segments. So we have another tool that actually beyond the tool that I showed you that's coming soon it actually allows you to calculate segments yourself. Right? So you can click on a beginning station, click on an ending station and you can see the length of that segment. You can see how, what the driving distance actually is from the station to an interstate highway, right now it just works for interstate highways. But you'll notice some really funky nuances with this as well. So this is a path, a segment that's in Florida. It's starting in Davenport, Florida and it's moving to Tampa, Florida. You can see it's 57 miles and unfortunately the station in Tampa is 1.7 miles away from the interstate. So it doesn't meet the NEVI requirements. Unless you measure it the other direction and if you measure it the other direction and you start at Tampa and you end in Davenport all of a sudden Tampa is fine and now Davenport isn't fine. And that is the nature of travel, right? That's how this all works. So it leads to nuanced questions like should Florida use east west directions or west east distance calculations or should they use both? Is there a third NEVI station needed here in order to make this so that it's 58 miles? Well, this is a segment. It's not a corridor so the question is like how do we actually measure that? How are we going to go through and how are we going to designate those as a Joint Office? There's also five stations along this route. Should Florida be updating one of those stations so that it meets NEVI requirements?
All good questions, all things we've gotten from states, all things we're hoping we can help you together work out what the best way to do this is. I mean we've had discussions. For this particular example we would say that this is under a mile from the highway because it is under a mile from the highway given either driving direction. That's fine. We just don't want you to do these calculations and worry and be like oh, oh no, this is a problem. Again keeping the spirit of the law, keeping the spirit of what we're trying to accomplish in mind as we're going through and doing these calculations is what we really want folks to do from the beginning.
Another question we get all the time is should I designate a new electric corridor? Why would I designate a new electric corridor? What's the strategy around designating these new corridors? We had an awesome conversation with Michigan last week and they were saying oh yeah, we've got a new corridor that we're going to designate. We've got this roadway that's heading out of Detroit and it heads up into Canada and we definitely want to designate that. And I started playing around with our measurement tool. And I was like well, yeah, of course we designate this. This is good, right? This is a roadway that's going to take you from Roseville, Michigan into Sarnia, Ontario and hits 50 miles like it meets the requirements. The Sarnia one is 5.2 miles away from the interstate because Canada highways aren't part of our interstate calculations. So that's one of the reasons why we say yes, for sure designate a highway that isn't designated already if it already meets the criteria. If it's a really important roadway to you and its very important to your state to be able to travel on that highway using electric charging designate it. Right? You're able to spend money on, the NEVI funds on designated corridors sooner than you're able to spend funds on non-designated corridors. So the types of conversations we've been having and things that you should be thinking about.
Finally just to wrap up my segment this is a map of all of the rounds one through five corridors. And you can see there's all sorts of dead ends at state borders and little floaty highways in the middle of states. And so one of the things the Joint Office is really going to be doing over this five years is looking at this national map and saying do we have a network? Do we have regions that are connected? How can we help states designate roadways that we can actually travel contiguous all the way across the country on these roadways? What can we do to help? And so all of the questions we're getting around where do we need more corridors. Are there places where we have too many corridors? How do we work with that? What do we do with the dead ends at state borders? Are all questions we're excited to get, we're hoping to help you guys out on, we're trying to think about. And that's going to be how we move forward for the next five years. So with that I'm going to leave you with one more map but let Lissa present this. Lissa?
Lissa Myers: Thanks Johanna. Hi everybody. So we've had a lot of great meetings with a lot of you over the last couple months and so I know we've talked about a lot of these things. But following on Johanna's messaging around the strategy related to corridors and where we want those corridors, we're getting a lot of questions about prioritization within the state's strategy. And so I think just at a super high level we're mindful of and you heard Johanna say it that this is an evolution. Right? And we fully expect that you're not going to have everything ironed out in year one. But when you're thinking about your strategies I think the key thing to keep in mind is that the state really has the flexibility to set its own priorities as long as it's within a balanced and thoughtful understanding of contributing to the national network. So there's no hard requirements for whether or not you start with your interstates, whether or not you do station upgrades first versus starting on new corridors, whether or not you look at specific demand modeling information. It's really up to the states to take the state priorities and figure out how to fit it into the strategy that makes sense for them.
And this example came up with Nevada. So Nevada has done a ton of work implementing stations in the last few years. You can see those where the green dots are on this map. Those are the dates of when stations were installed. And so we had a conversation about whether Nevada wants to start by upgrading those existing stations 'cause they don't currently meet the new NEVI requirements. Or whether they want to go ahead and maybe move on to some of the other designated corridors within the state before coming back and upgrading those stations that were just installed. So again it's really up to the state and just trying to balance the goals of the national network with the priorities in the state. Next slide.
Lots of questions about exception requests. I think the main thing to keep in mind is that there's not going to be a blanket approval of exception requests. There's – exception requests are around common themes of distance between the stations, distance from the highway and power requirements. And I think what we're asking for you all – there's not going to be an exception request approved in this first year 'cause buildout certification is not happening this first year. But what we're asking is for you to identify those areas where you know you have particular challenges right now. And in some cases you're not going to know these challenges until your second or third year and that's ok. But identify those. We want to engage with you and talk through them and explore options together, identify if there are additional resources that the Joint Office can support you in developing a solution there or where there's not a solution that's feasible then how we can help you build the justification so that when it comes time for the certification process you have the documentation and the justification that you need to build that case.
So again just reach out to us as soon as you know you have those challenges. The more specifics you can provide the better. And so a lot of the things that Johanna was just showing on those maps, those are the kinds of roll up our sleeves. We can look at the maps and try to work on solutions together. And then the Joint Office actually also has some funding particularly around power requirements where we might be able to do some demonstration projects in some really challenging areas. But we need to have a really good sense sort of at the national level. Where are those common challenges? Where are there similar situations that people are facing? So that we can focus those demonstration projects in areas that would have the greatest value to the whole nation. So next slide.
So common questions. We got a lot of questions about level of detail that's needed for the state plan. Full recognition that the turnaround time for doing this planning process is pretty short. So we're just asking you all to do the best that you can within the time constraints that we have. We fully understand and acknowledge that some of the components in these plans, particularly around stakeholder engagement are things that take a lot longer time. So what we're looking for in those cases are for you to look at what you've done previously. See what you can leverage. Identify the things that you've done recently. Identify maybe where you have some more gaps or where you know you want to do additional work and just tell us about that in the state plan. So it's ok in this plan to be sort of a plan to plan. That's totally acceptable. Then we did get some requests around whether or not it's possible to delegate the authority to other state agencies. So I think as Mike mentioned in the beginning historically in some of the states the DOTs may not have been the folks that have been implementing these kinds of projects.
So there's a lot of – in some cases there's desire to have another state agency take the lead. That's totally fine as long as there's an understanding that the state DOT is ultimately responsible since these are federal highway funds. And in some cases the states in those scenarios the states have had formal agreements that they've entered into or it can be informal. So delegation is possible with understanding that the responsibility still lies with the DOT.
Questions around submitting early. Yes, it's possible to submit the plan early. But again do the best you can to be as thorough as possible. We're not expecting pages and pages of information but do the best to tell us about how you're planning to spend this money. And lastly I'll just say this is a five-year program and this is the first year of this five-year program. We're all going to be learning together. So there are some areas in the template and in the guidance where there's additional information, best practices, things like that that we want to develop. And this first year is really an opportunity for us together to identify where those areas are, where the Joint Office can then go and develop some additional best practices and guidance for follow-on years. So again first year of a five-year program and just give it the best shot you can. Next slide. And I think we're moving on. These are the open items. I think it's back to you Mike.
Mike Scarpino: Yes. Thanks Lissa. So I guess I got the short straw. I get to talk about all the things we don't have answers on. So consistent questions that we hear in our meetings. How will NEPA be handled? What is the exact guidelines associated with what's eligible? Does it stop at the meter? Does it go beyond that to running lines to individual sites? How will equity and Justice40 be implemented? Do we have any best practices or any guidelines beyond what's in the program guidance? And hey, what about these 180-day minimum standards? What are they going to say? Well unfortunately when we're meeting with all of you we just don't have answers that we can share on all of those and many of them, actually all of those first four bullets are being worked on behind the scenes. There's a group of folks in DOT, the office of the secretary and federal highway that are working on clarifying NEPA so that we don't know if there will be categorical exclusions but there will be guidelines on how to address the NEVI program with NEPA.
Eligible costs, equity, and 180-day minimum standards. All of these are being worked out behind the scenes and we would expect to have further clarifications and guidance for the states out shortly, the 180 day minimum standards by May 13 and I think you'll see the other two coming out right around that timeframe. Other questions that folks are asking about – it's funny. We're all focused on getting to the state plans being submitted. But then we get questions about well, what happens after the state plans are submitted and approved by September 30? So one of the questions we get from a lot of states – and this makes sense. You received your FY22 apportionment with the apportionment memo that came out in February. But folks were already thinking ahead. Alright. Well, if my plan is approved by September 30 and we get our FY23 funds sometime shortly thereafter can we start using these funds too? That is an open question we don't really have an answer to. We also get many questions about fully built out. What will happen? How do I get to fully built out? How do exceptions work with that? What if something happens after we're fully built out? We just had that question in the chat. Once again these are questions we don't have official answers to and we're trying to work out behind the scenes.
Buy America is another one. This is a process that's being worked on by the highest levels of the government. You may have seen that some information came out back on April 18. But basically that came from the White House directed each of the agencies to then work on a waiver process for Buy America. So still TBD on that but Department of Transportation now has the action to put together a process that folks will need to follow for NEVI. And there's language in the program guidance that talks about it's suggested that we have all of the infrastructure built in six months and we do realize with supply chain issues and other things that could potentially be impacting that six month suggested. That probably isn't realistic in the real world. So we do understand that there will be supply chain constraints and we will take that into consideration. I don't think it was mentioned yet but when the apportionment memo comes out, came out for FY22 it did talk about that these funds are available until expended. So even if there are some delays there isn't a requirement that once you get these funds that they have to be spent in a certain time. Go to the next slide please.
So kind of on the coming soon we thought we were going to be doing webinars once a week. We had our first couple and then we've really been concentrating on the state one-on-ones. But with this webinar we're hoping to relaunch the webinar series. So what we're trying to do is cover questions kind of that was on that previous slide. What are the issues that everyone is asking about and maybe we haven't provided either answers or guidance. So equity when we have this equity guidance that we're expecting to come out shortly, we're going to have a webinar on that that will walk through what's in that guidance and what the states could expect to be putting into their states plans. We've talked several times about the 180-day minimum standards and requirements. When that comes out we'll be walking through that process. And then we also mentioned Clean Cities previously. So we are going to have a webinar that looks at the potential collaborations between Clean Cities and the NEVI program focused on some of the Clean Cities efforts around the country that have been working closely with their state DOTs whether it's working on parts of the plan, stakeholder engagement or even some of the round six nominations.
The last thing that I'll mention is now that we've kind of staffed up in the Joint Office TA side of the house we're thinking of having some time this month we'll be launching regional office hours. So this would be an opportunity to just have an open hour, hour and a half, two hours on a calendar for a certain day that would allow you to sign in, have access to those of us in the Joint Office. And what I'm hoping to is if several states are calling in that we facilitate a conversation. What are the issues going on in your state? Thinking about corridors across borders and just about anything associated with NEVI. So look for that. That will be coming soon. Next slide please.
All right. So when we are on the state one-on-ones I started this list of you hear the same questions over and over and over. So these are the links that we're constantly throwing in the chat. I mentioned the apportionment, the FY22, the five year one. There's some good websites here, federal highway and DOE that look at BIL, the equity mapping tool for Justice40. That comes up a lot, a lot of questions about right of way and matching requirements. And when we had our state one-on-one with the state of Maryland a few weeks ago they had pointed out that they have a NEVI website so we thought that was pretty cool so I've added that to our links. If you haven't checked that out already please do. If you have your own NEVI website let us know and we'll highlight you all on this slide. Next one. This will be our last slide coming up if we can transition to it.
Alright. So you hate to say we're here to help but we are here to help. And I'll quote we were on a call with New Mexico I guess it was last week and we were speaking with Jerry from New Mexico DOT. And I wish I had his picture or had him able to speak because he kept saying, "Hey. We're partners in this. We're partners in this." So I thought that was a great message and that's how we have all felt that this is your funding. But we are here to help. We are here to provide technical assistance. We're here to help connect the dots with the maps that Johanna showed. We're here to help you develop your state plans as Lissa described with these office hours. If you aren't working with your neighbors we hope to put you in touch. So everything we're doing here we all want to be working together. We all want to get to the point where you're submitting a successful plan. And then beyond that plan we want to help you successfully implement. So I think that is our last slide here. And I was in the chat earlier but got out of it for these slides. I guess I'll turn it over to either Steve or Johanna how we want to handle the chat from this point on.
Johanna Levene: Yeah. Thank you Mike. So I think – oh we're good. So I think that if you have questions that haven't been answered or questions you haven't asked yet now we have time to answer questions. If you have something that's been asked and we haven't answered it please go ahead and resubmit it in the chat. There's been a lot in the chat. And we'll do our best to answer if you have a question, a new question. We can go through and we can answer those as well. I invite all of the Joint Office folks to jump in. And Steve I will ask you to be our facilitator if you would not mind.
Steve Lommele: Absolutely. So we had one come in from Lyle McMillan in Utah. Will the 180-day guidance have info about P3 contract language so the EBST does not need to revert to the state. And I think we're going to have some more information on this. But this is one of those specific topics where it's probably best for the state to engage with the Joint Office and the state division office at federal highways so that we can have a conversation about the specifics there. Anything to add from the team?
Mike Scarpino: That's good. Definitely division office needs to be looped into anything in the contract.
Steve Lommele: Just watching the chat here. There have been a number of questions. But just trying to see. There's one here is a list of contacts at state DOTs for stakeholders to get involved in state working groups or state plans? The Joint Office does not have a specific list of state DOTs to share with stakeholders. However organizations like AASHTO are a great resource. And we would encourage you to look at your specific state DOTs for information on outreach that they're doing, that sort of thing.
Johanna Levene: It looks like there's a question here Steve. To what extent is Joint Office working with OEMs to assess their plan investment in DC fast charging deployments across the U.S.? Talking about Tesla's plan and how are we planning on working together with those. Do you want to talk Steve a little bit about some of the conversations that you've had there?
Steve Lommele: Yeah. I don't know that I have specifics to share. However we are engaging with all the major OEMs through directly and kind of through some of their partner organizations just to talk about investments that they're making and how it can be leveraged. So I'm just looking at that question again.
Johanna Levene: Yeah. I think I'll jump in for a second while you're looking at the question. So one of the things that we have found is that in many cases the OEMs are actually working directly with the state. So we had a great conversation with Utah and they were talking about oh we have all of these OEMs that are actually reaching out to us right now. Rivian is reaching out to us right now. Volvo is reaching out to us. They're talking about where the stations are going. So I think this is another one of those places where there's also a partnership where the conversations are happening at the national level, at the regional level, at the state level. And so making sure that that information is flowing back and forth as much as we can is one of the things we're trying to do. I do know that in the legislation there is a requirement for the Alternative Fuel Station Locator on the AFDC where there is a way to actually see where stations are planned or where folks are thinking about putting stations in sooner so that we don't run into the situation where we're trying to build on top of multiple stations.
And so that's something that we've got a request for funding in to try to figure out how do we do that. We know that there are some challenges with that. For example you don't want to too early in the process say oh we're going to put a station here because what we've seen in the past is that as soon as you say oh I want to put a station here the people who own that property say someone wants to put a station there. We should make sure we make as much money as possible off of that. So trying to make sure that we are allowing the market forces to work as they are supposed to while also making sure that we have the information available so we don't duplicate efforts is one of the challenges we're trying to figure out.
Steve Lommele: Yeah. And there was another element to that question. It said NEVI is a great step forward but $5 billion in federal assistance will likely be insufficient on its own in achieving DC FC ubiquity and I think that's a good point. I mean this is an investment, a sizable investment and it will go supporting sort of the backbone of the national network. And I mean it kind of speaks to that big tent idea. There's lots of investment and this is hopefully just a piece of the puzzle when it comes to creating an opportunity for everyone to ride and drive electric in the future. And then –
Lissa Myers: I'll just – Steve, sorry. I know you were – I just noticed a lot of questions around power and the maybe lack of three phase power or ability to have the 600 kW. I think that again just we want to understand where those specific challenges are. So that's an opportunity to engage with the Joint Office. Show us on a map. Let us know what the conversation that's happened with the utility. Help us understand what those real challenges are in those specific locations. We might be able to help with some additional thoughts or opportunities there. And then if not again we're building the case so that when it comes time for the full build out certification we can help support that request for an exception. So there's not a specific yes, all rural situations are going to be exempted from the power requirements. But we want to understand where those challenges are and what the specific nature of those challenges is. So just trying to tackle several of those comments all at once there.
Steve Lommele: I think I have two that we can knock out here. So the first was does TA team have any recommendations for how to treat Teslas when modeling projecting demand on corridors. So I think this may kind of speak to the question of whether or not you as a state may want to surpass the minimum requirements in certain locations and build out beyond that minimum four port 150 kilowatt station design. And that's something we can certainly help with. We can look at traffic demand models and kind of help you think through where it may make sense to do that. But it's something that we'll have to kind of engage specifically on. So I would encourage you to submit that question on the Joint Office email address on this slide. And then the other one do all alternate fuel vehicle designated corridors have to be completely built out or just under contract before we can begin on other locations? So this is kind of still evolving and I think this is one of the things that we discussed might be coming more. But we understand that procuring a station and actually having the station operational are potentially two different things with different timelines. So I think there will be more to come on this. Anything to add there from the team? Let's see. There was another one here about two alternate fuel corridors coming together at a place that would be NEVI compliant for both groups. Can we overlap and get credit for both corridors? That's a great question for Johanna.
Johanna Levene: Yeah. So I'm happy to take that one. Yeah. So I think that's – I mean strategically that's what we would like to see. Right? Is that there is a – if there's a place where you could put one station in and have multiple routes actually being able to service those corridors I think that's a great site. And I think that's the type of thing also where the Florida example that I gave where if you're driving one way and it's two miles off the highway but the other way it's one mile off the highway but it's servicing both of those sets of corridors something worth noting and letting us know about. It's also an opportunity like Steve was saying to think about whether or not that's a location that maybe you either want to future proof or go above and beyond the NEVI requirements if it's a really heavily set of roadways. Is there something you want to do there to make sure that when those routes are being traveled and you're getting the traffic from both directions that you're able to meet the needs of those drivers? But yeah. If I was planning I would definitely be looking for locations like that. Make the most out of those opportunities, be able to provide a nice charging location that is going to have more traffic coming through, thus making it more attractive for people to provide amenities to those vehicles. I think that sounds like a great strategy.
Mike Scarpino: Just to add a little on that Johanna because the question talks about two U.S. highways being considered for corridor nominations, I'm assuming for round six. So while the round six request for nominations in NEVI talks about the priority being for interstates if you have a couple of U.S. highways that you consider a priority in your state and you would like to nominate them to have immediate access to the NEVI funding because the NEVI funding can only be used on designated corridors. So if these two U.S. highways are a priority in your state, a corridor you're looking for immediate access to NEVI funding then yes it makes sense to go ahead.
Johanna Levene: And Mike you sound like evil bizarro Mike again for some reason.
Mike Scarpino: Oh I'm sorry.
Johanna Levene: It's all electric. That's ok. Just so you know.
Mike Scarpino: Ok. I won't talk.
Johanna Levene: You can talk. Just know that you sound like a super villain.
Steve Lommele: So here's another question. Does the Joint Office have an idea on how much the distribution system can handle a three phase, 600 kilowatt power supply without major upgrades? So we are working closely with our utility partners and state DOTs are also engaging utilities early in the process. And this is really a location specific question. And so there will be analysis conducted in partnership with utilities and state DOTs and the site host to kind of understand what the opportunities and limitations are there. So yes, in some areas there will need to be upgrades. In other areas there may not need to be as significant of an upgrade. How about this one here? When will alternative fuel corridor round six be approved? What is the timeline for that?
Johanna Levene: Mike or Diane?
Diane Turchetta: Hey yeah. This is Diane. I don't know an exact timeline. It will be May 13, right, so we're going to do them as quickly as possible but it really is dependent on how many corridor nominations we receive. If we receive 25 states it might be a couple weeks. If we receive all 50 states it may be into the end of June or July. But we will promise to do them as quickly as possible.
Johanna Levene: So Steve I was going back in time a little bit and looking at some questions that I don't think we've quite answered yet. There was a question here regarding the four CCS ports capable of simultaneously charging vehicles. Can we have two chargers in two distinct locations but within a certain distance meet this requirement? So I think that's a question that we've gotten quite a bit and they've been more hypothetical questions sort of like this one is. And what we've been encouraging states to do is if you do have a location where this is actually the situation that you have where you're looking and you're like oh. I mean I don't have a NEVI compliant station here, but I have this one on this side of the highway and this one on this side of the highway and this has two chargers and this has two chargers and they each have two CCS ports and can do 150 kilowatts. Please identify those for us if that's a location that you would like to have considered so that we can take it through our process and think about it. I can understand the attractiveness of that and the advantage of that.
But when we're dealing in hypotheticals the answer tends to be no because it's a hypothetical. And when we can look at an actual situation and understand how that might benefit the roadway we might be able to think about that differently. So I would encourage you if you do have those types of situations it's on our very long list of proactive analyses that we would like to do is to actually take a look at the data we have ourselves and understand where those situations might actually exist. I think in city centers especially you're going to see a ton of that. Right? There's a bunch of stations that are on a location. But whether that's strategic or not and that actually leads to a corridor type of a situation is something that we'll want to think about. So I encourage you to send those to the Joint Office, include them in your state plans if there's a scenario where that actually exists.
Steve Lommele: There was a question with some specifics in it but generally related to Tesla opening up their charging network to non-Tesla owners. And of course if some of those Tesla stations were now accessible to all drivers via CCS then that could change the calculus in terms of which corridors are fully built out so that's something that we're tracking and continuing to look into.
Johanna Levene: Yeah. I think there's another question I'm looking at about built out status be rescinded if a compliant charger location is shut down and the 50-mile threshold no longer holds. I think that's another great example of those sort of hypothetical questions that we've been thinking about that part of why we want to have the access to the historic station data that I mentioned earlier is so that we can actually start to do some analyses to say ok, how often does that happen? Where does it happen? What have we seen in the past? And do some analyses around how we would actually handle those types of situations, right?
Again in a metropolitan area where a station would get shut down for some reason or other but there's a large density of stations around that, that might not have too much of an impact on the corridor. But if you're talking about where you have a location that's actually bridging that 50 miles and you lose that particular station what happens there, I think that will be something that the Joint Office wants to think about, figure out how do we support that, how do we find out about that ahead of time, how do we know when those stations are being challenged and what might happen. So I think it's a great scenario. It's something that we're interested in when we talk about the resiliency of these corridors. But it's something that's one of those future ideas that we don't necessarily have an answer around right now. We're aware that that's a challenge and it's something that states are asking about and it's something we want to understand better.
Steve Lommele: So we had a question come in does the Joint Office have a document of all the questions asked and answered from the state meetings? Yes, we do. We track all of the questions that are asked and we have many that come in to the Joint Office via email in our DoneDone service. And so today's webinar is an attempt to kind of offer up some of the common themes that have emerged from those. And as Diane mentioned in the chat, we do hope to be able to issue some approved, written FAQs here shortly as well. And then another question. Can we discuss Tesla opening their station in our plan or is that still too much of a hypothetical question? You could certainly discuss it in your plan and how that could factor into maybe how you expect to prioritize investment. But of course relative to fully built out status a determination will have to be made as to whether or not stations exist that do meet the minimum requirements. So certainly something you could discuss but maybe just kind of consider how that might impact your strategy.
Johanna Levene: Again I'm looking back a little bit. There's a question about what station economic viability, demographic, and traffic flow considerations were used when the 50-mile requirement was selected. That's a great question Jesse and I will say that that requirement has been revisited every single year of the alternative fuel corridor program. It's been vetted by our partners. It's been vetted by OEMs. It's been vetted by stations or station networks and talking about what does that actually look like. We've done some detailed deep dive analyses into that. And prior to NEVI passing there was a lot of discussion around that 50-mile requirement. So it's not a requirement that we've come by lightly. It's not a requirement that hasn't been reevaluated time and time again. I'm happy to talk specifics with you if you want to get into the nitty gritties. But know that that is a decision that has had a lot of eyes on it and continues to hold true at that 50-mile requirement.
Steve Lommele: There's a question here. Once the alternative fuel corridor is built out will states be able to use NEVI funds to build charging at a reduced state along corridors within the plan but outside the alternative fuel corridors. So the 90-day guidance does discuss this specifically and says that there may be additional flexibility in terms of station design and location once you achieve fully built out status.
Johanna Levene: Alright. Are we slowing down?
Steve Lommele: There are just some general questions about really that relate to cost eligibility. And so we will have more to share on cost eligibility coming up here in the next couple of weeks.
Johanna Levene: And I would say that is one of those places where the state meetings have been so valuable in understanding the details of where the states are looking for eligible costs, why they're looking for eligible costs. It's been really useful for us to be able to have that information and feed that into the Joint Office. So thank you again for your candor on those and for the specific examples you've provided 'cause that's been really valuable in helping to shape that program.
Steve Lommele: And then maybe a quick question here on what can be considered as a state match? So go ahead Johanna.
Johanna Levene: Oh Mike grabbed that one I think.
Steve Lommele: Ok.
Mike Scarpino: If I don't sound like a robot anymore yes.
Johanna Levene: You don't sound like a robot anymore.
Mike Scarpino: Ok. Yeah. It's either eligible for federal funding or match. Like it's one – they're both the same. So it's when that cost eligibility document comes out then that ought to provide more answers and more details.
Steve Lommele: Alright. And I think we are at time now. So we definitely appreciate all of the questions and if we didn't get to you please do submit your question to that email address that you see on the screen now, firstname.lastname@example.org and we will get back to you. But we really appreciate everyone's time today so thank you so much for joining us and please do stay engaged.